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Not happy about subs, anyone else?

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Not happy about subs, anyone else?

Postby Kaze-Yaida » August 6th, 2009, 7:33 pm

Ok, before i starts, this is a fairly moral argument and although i hate to admit it some hypacritism i can't remove(youll see), but i need to say it.

When i saw the very first time, fan subbed animations, animecrave took no support to it, it was fan run. I was able to put up with it even if i wasnt happy about it. Now, animecrave fullly support subbed anime and even says its "directly from japanese TVs" does NOONE see the problem with this?

Lets not lie to ourselves, taking it from a DvD released tot he public, and stremaing it, is fine, especially considering the prices for anime, theres no illigal download you have to go to the site ect.

Now heres where it gets deeper, never have i seen a highl supported public anime site that steals anime from -american- TVs, or any english TV for that matter. In fact, and thankfully, its frowned upon by most people, at least the ones I know.

SO what makes stealing it from japanese televisions, so much more justifiable? why do you people think its ok to take a private item, steal it, and then give it out. Now lets lie to ourselves, taking the private show directly from TV and handing out, thats downright theivery, its stealing in pure form.

Now im all for stopping the price abuse onf anime, from what ive seen the prices are ridiculous, so im ok with tkaing from DvDs released for public uses(streamed of course), but common people lets draw a moral line.

Are we so desperate for anime that were willing to support downright stealing for it? better, are we so desperate were willing to steal, fomr one country, and respect another. Does noone feel the same? does noone feel the same sence of moral problem from just downright STEALING? You can buy somone fomr a garage sale and sell it elsehwere, but you dont take a couch, put money where it used to be, then sell it back.

Now dont get me wrong, idc say the same for japan, is an anime is japanese only, and released onto DvD, then go subtitle it and ill be glad to support it, but this downright theivery right from the television producers, i dont want to see anime turn into a hobby we have to lie cheat and steal to get.
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Postby trueLOTM » November 16th, 2009, 3:22 pm

I actually sort of agree, though I watch fansubs quite a bit. I really didn't want fansubs to come to AC, because AC was guilt free before then. They buy the DVDs, share them with us, and we help pay the costs of the maintaining the site and future anime purchases for the sight. Makes sense. AC used to be free, and is only pay because it's too expensive to maintain on donations and ads alone (not enough donations).

I had this argument with my friend a million times on the legality of AC. Because the anime is being paid for, and we're sharing in the purchase of the anime, it's not piracy. Thus, I'm willing to put AC on my bills, where it's recorded. However, I can't help but feel that these fansubs which say "if you paid for this, you got screwed!" are telling me that the fansub section either should be free to non-Live members, or shouldn't be there at all, because it really is piracy, regardless if we're downloading it or not, because fansubs, especially for series that will be licensed (or already are, like Viz Media and InuYasha: The Last Act), are pirated from their owners.

Now don't get me wrong, I watch fansubs. I like fansubs, and admittedly, I download some here or there elsewhere. I download some music sometimes, and that's piracy. I try to minimize it. But what I don't like is AC going all on us: we're going to become murkier on our legality, and make it so that if there is any prosecution in the future, it's going to be on you guys, not us, because you're the ones watching the anime, while we just own it and upload (Check the legal statement). Before fansubs were loaded here, I felt a lot safer sending my money to AC each month and watching anime here.
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Postby jate88 » November 17th, 2009, 12:31 am

I can have legal action taken against me for watching fansubs on this site???
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Another view

Postby Eagle13 » January 10th, 2010, 1:10 am

Look at it this way you are paying to help keep the site up and to watch the dubbed episodes the fansubs is just a little thing on the side for those that cant wait for the shows to be dumbed
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Postby nsk1982 » January 10th, 2010, 6:18 pm

Please read below and before you start the banter, do some research.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-06-17/japan-strengthens-copyright-laws-for-downloading
Japanese laws are different than the ones in the states. Also, fansubbing allows for the exposure of more animes than most dubbing industries can ever cater to. Most dubbing companies do their best to bring the best animes to America but the time frame to actually produce them is quite lengthy. Funimation recognized this and has started streaming many Japanese subbed animes for free on their site. Crunchyroll has also taken this same approach. Thanks to fansubbers, the anime community in America has grown this big. Instead of waiting for a year or more for a series to reach here, they are provided earlier and help to carter to the growing interest and demands of fans. They are mostly done for free while the dubbing companies have to think of profit. I am not saying that that is bad thing but since it is a business, the time frame of episode release does more harm to the industry then anything. Animes like Bleach, Death Note, Lucky Star, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, had already become household names among anime fans here before they were released and thus drove the market for this episodes. I am still an advocate to buying animes as they get released but that may not be the case for all of them and this may even involve those which have been licensed and dubbed. The animes released buy Geneon before it became defunct is an example. Although most of Geneon's old anime rights have been bought by other companies, some are still in limbo and thus might never be released anymore eventhough they are licensed and dubbed and there's not much anyone can do about this.
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Postby Bassam » January 12th, 2010, 11:56 am

AC only started this because of what has already been stated by nsk, companies in the USA simply take too long. And some of you here on AC just cannot wait and go elsewhere. With all the competition that is out there now that has no quality AC has suffered drastically and I'm sure many of you can tell. You have soo many out there, that basically put no work into their sites and go linking you to videos uploaded all over the net and they make a ton of profit because they kill you with the ads. AC is not like that and will never be and once the anime that is fansubbed gets released in the USA we do redo it with the amount of requests of course.

Could AC offer fansubs? No because it would be all the Live members paying for those people that purely support fansubs. AC will never fully support fansubs because there would be no future in the US if fansusb took over and no one cared about dubs.

Great points nsk, some anime never even gets subbed or dubbed at all guys. I mean ya fansubs might be hurting companies a bit in the USA but its because they just don't know how to manage. Myabe they are starting to wake up as nsk stated. But to be honest its taken them way too long, you have millions of anime viewers but they cannot may anyone happy as they are going. They had ridiclous demands for a single episode for their series, requesting between 200-400 thousand per an episode. This was like 3 years ago. What kind of broadcaster would freaking pay that when no channel is known for having anime, no network would take the risk.

Once again proving that companies like Funimation if they do not change will abuse a downfall for anime here. I mean seriously you have channels about everything here in the US, one of the most popular anime channels was probably the one that ADV had. But again they just fail to go about things the right away and thus jack up prices and we suffer for it. I mean I think anime is probably the most expensive form of watching in the US, everything else is on TV they have to be on TV to get noticed. But they kept it to DVD. Anyways I can go on about this but I need to rap it up =P

AC would like to change things one day but hopefully one day if we grow enough we will have a say in the matter.
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Postby KeKe » January 12th, 2010, 9:21 pm

I'll put it plain and simple... English anime is god awdul. to be honest it should never have been made. out of the thousands of horrible ones there are a few that stand out that are enjoyable in english.

I wish I would have found this thread when it was made lol. I actually would have read everyones posts xD
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Postby Bassam » January 13th, 2010, 7:33 am

Stop marking topics keke and read! We actually said some stuff worth reading...
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Postby KeKe » January 13th, 2010, 10:28 am

hehe, I'll get around to it. I did read the OP. I dunno, just sounded a bit like whining about something that is not what AC is about. but really, english dubbed anime is horrible. so I'm all for the subbing. as well with people who do want the anime right then and there, its hard to get grabbed into an anime within 4 epidoes and thats all we have when other sites have the rest. Yea you can wait but god damnit i'm impatient lol.
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Postby Bassam » January 13th, 2010, 2:45 pm

Not sure sucks that some people just are impatient, I hate you keke for being one of them ! And do not post another reply unless you read whats above!
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Postby KeKe » January 14th, 2010, 2:18 pm

well i skimmed through it and got the just of some ideas. talking about how expensive anime is.. Rurouni Kenshin original box sets were like 250 bucks a piece or something ridiculous like that. but that anime at the time was like, widley known as the best anime ever created.

as for fan subs. the only issue i have is AC does require a live account for it. but with this being said, people who want to watch fan subs can get them free other places AND you do not pay for the anime you watch here, you pay for bandwith and the like. if AC charged like 30 a month or something then I may call BS about the fan subs. or I just would not purchase a live acount or something. but even at 30 a month, this site is cheap. 30 bucks will get you what? maybe 6 anime episodes bought in a store?

The prices are not an issue with finumation or x anime company. the issue is with America itself. everyone who has nothing wants something once you have something you want more, once you have more you becme a greedy bastard and want even more. this is true for 95-98% of Americans. (made up statistic but from what I see it is true) nobody is ever happy with what they have. even if everyone in the states started liking anime, prices would still go up for stuff. This country is entirely screwed until the large corperations figure out that their CEO's and top brass make more money a day than what most Americans make in a year. They make more in a year than what probably 80% of the world makes in a life time. and even with this, you have companies who try to cheat the system to make more money for their CEO's and when they know they are failing they play the books and try and get themselves out before the shit hits the fan (enron) These things are very big problems.

You have people talking about healthcare reform. we will give everyone health care but oh no it wont up the rates. bullshit. its a simple matter of science that isnt going to happen. for every action there is an opposite reaction. we give all old people and whoever health care, the people who have money will pay for it.

so anyhow I got a little deeper into that than I wanted..

As for me ghating english anime it is a simple thing about quality. in the early 1900's up until just after WWII the US was about quality. you went out and bought a hammer, the thing is still around today. you bought a car, it was sturdy and solid as a rock. with technology and suposed safety issues we have plastic bumpers that one small fender bender and your car is totaled. we used to make good bowls and cookware, now everythingis cheap as plastic that breaks after one use. EVERYTHING breaks after one use it seems. exajerated ofcourse but think about it. if Americans still created quality, you would have bought 1 bowl to store leftover food in, this would last you until you either broke it or lost it. essentially a life time. now you get zimplocks bullshit stuff. one bowl that lasts an entire lifetime costs what? 30 bucks? now you get something that is craptastic and lasts for a few days that costs 25 cents or whatever it is. with this logic you have to buy one pack every month at a dollar a piece. so in just over 2 years if you would have bought the worth while bowl you would be on top. and would have spent less money.

American companies are built on lets make the most shit we can so we can sell it cheap so it breaks and in a few months people have to buy a new one. so we stay in business. or, lets not make this the best it can be so next year we can add this feature so people have to buy a new one and do the same for the next 10 years.

America is not going to become better until people stop trying to screw everyone else and work to better the country as a whole instead of themselves.

So quality.

Anime while it may be fairly big here in the states, companies can get shoddy voice actors and pump anime out in short periods of time with horrible voice acting quality no emotions, or emotions that completely change characters (Naruto comes to mind) and the people who don't know better see it think its great and buy it all up. this gives anime companies the go ahead to do the same instead of getting people who can actually do voice acting, do good emotions, care enough about what they are doing to make a good product. Anime would totally be worth what they sell it for if the voice acting was good.

Curt, Me, and a few others were the ones who pushed for subs on AC, I did not push for fan subs. though I thought it could be worth while. Subtitles which already come on the DVD's are a great addition to AC because I know there are many people in america that are like me and hate english dubs. how do I know this? All the crap sites Bassam spoke about. as for Fan subs, the creators who do the subs care about what they are doing, they make quality products most of the time. the translations are better than what english people do and for stupid reaosns completely change the sotry line or cut stuff out. (One Piece)

Another issue I have with American anime is it is looked at as a cartoon by most. cartoons are for kids. so it gets dumbed down to be made for kids through the dubs. (Naruto)

it just goes to show how stupid chritsians and catholics and any sort of religion that goes on over here that cries, oh no, you can not show that to kids you can not do this or whatever. but thats all I will get on that topic or I might make this a novel.

and finally, as for copyright laus.. studies have prooven that people who download and deal with broken copyrights purchase more media than those people who do not. eventually the companies are going to piss off everyone whopurchases stuff enough that they will quit buying it and those companies will go under. people are greedy bastards and thats the last thing I will say in this post
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Postby Bassam » January 16th, 2010, 7:31 pm

The prices I'm talking about are not DVDs, its the price they charge for a broadcaster to have rights to broadcast an episode. DVDs I'm gonna say sometimes just have to be around that much and nowadays the prices for them are not as bad as they used to be. Funimation needed to realize and all the others at that time back then that they cannot expect any broadcaster to spend fortunes on one anime series. For example say you wanted to broadcast a series that is 26 episodes you would have to spend 6.5 million just for one series. This is completely fine if you knew anime viewers come to you all the time for anime. However since the only known station to have anime is Adult Swim and they freaking aired their anime at midnight there was no way any broadcaster would try to even bother creating a concrete channel for anime which is what hurt all dubbing companies. Simply put money will not come form DVDs, it comes form the ads on TV stations.

Not wanting to get into the US and cheap stuff but I hear you on it all, prices sky rocketed I mean from simple chips used to be $.25 now its $.75. Let me say this did minimum wage tripled for prices to go as high up as they have gone> Lets leave it at that.

Pfft short periods of times the thing is these companies think they are doing a really good job and take their sweet time. By the time Case Closed gets done I'll be in my 40's. BTW when you buy DVDs its subbed to so you dont' have to buy it for the dubbed stuff..
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Postby KeKe » January 16th, 2010, 9:27 pm

well, aparently except for Zoids.

but yea I have to say I perfer fan-subs. the dubbing companies look at the $$$ obviously. fansubbers do it for... well the fans ofcourse. so usually, if you have a good fansub group, the translations are more accurate, anime isn't cut liek it is on english stuff and well, id gladly pay for their work more than the large company's crap they put out. but thst in itself is the largest problem with the world. you can only buy stuff from companies that only look at the end result which is money. there is nothing that builds quality anymore. aside from like mercedes bens, ferari, and car companies. why is it that the more technology progresses in houses, the more shoddily built they are?
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Postby Bassam » January 19th, 2010, 1:05 pm

Ya Zoids sadly can't find the subbed for its anywhere.
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Postby arr-chan » August 28th, 2010, 7:17 am

i am on a need to know basis with fansubs. i only watch the subs if the english version hasnt come out yet. although if been watching vampire knight in english dubbed recently and THEY TOTALLY FUCKED IT UP! they say the names wrong and the voices dont suit the characters. so the japanese version is better because the voices match the characters. yeah, and they say my fav anie character's name wrong. my fav in this anime if kaname (pronounced ka na may) kuran and they say his name with like a funky accent to it and it sounds really bad. that and yuki's voice actor's voice is to high for the character she is supposed to be. so yes sometimes subs are a good thing but i hate having to read on the screen what they are saying. there are big downers with subs because seeing as they are on the screen they block the anime ur watching and it kind of gets annoying. :seeya
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