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PostPosted: August 3rd, 2010, 3:23 pm
by thejthar
I'll take back that he was trying to hinder them but he is still a villain through the series until he decides to help them.

PostPosted: August 3rd, 2010, 3:40 pm
by PrimaryLotusUser
*deep breaths* so...if he wasn't trying to hinder them, and he wasn't working for the other can he be a villain? i mean, he was more of an antihero.

PostPosted: August 3rd, 2010, 6:10 pm
by thejthar

1. He kidnaps Al to learn about soul bonding so he can become immortal.
2. He sides with the Homunculus for a little bit when Father puts Greed in Ling.
3. He kills one of his comrades while he is with the Homunculi.
4. Actually Ed joins him to stop Father but actually Greed wants to kill Father so he can rule the world and find another way to become immortal with Father's powers.

So actually he starts off as a villain and then turns into like an anti-villain. No matter how you look at it Greed always had evil intentions. Plus everywhere I look websites always put Greed on the villains side so either everyone is wrong or you're just being stubborn.

PostPosted: August 3rd, 2010, 11:23 pm
by PrimaryLotusUser
1. so what? he wants to learn about immortality. he has no evil intentions, doesn't plan on destroying al, and is willing to trade al to ed in a deal that ed later realizes he should've taken.
2. if by " a little bit" you mean about 1 chapter in which he doesn't kill anyone or help the homoculi at all, then yes.
3. Vegeta kills Nappa. OVERALL is vegeta a villain in DBZ. no. he is an anti-hero (there's no such thing as an anti-villain).
4. ed realizes he needs greed's help and asks for it. greed claims that " i don't work with people, they work for me." therefore, ed takes the highroad and allies himself. in the panel before he does you see that greed is contemplating the fact that he's alone quite sullenly. also, near the end greed says to ling that he guesses being the emperor of a huge country is good enough.

also, let's not forget the fact that greed couldn't keep his old comrades out of his head and felt bad about killing thast guy afterwards. he realizes towards the end that he doesn't want to gather shit tons of material things, and that the reason it's never enough is because he has no one to share it with.

in the end, greed is in no way a villain.
1)he didn't help at all with the giant transmutation circle like sloth and envy did.
2)he wasn't a blind follower of father like the rest of them.
3) he never allied himself with any of the other homonculi like.
4) he never hindered any of the protagonists ( ed,al,hawkeye,mustang,the armstrong siblings. those kind.) but he did hinder father and the homonculi. he rebeled not once, but TWICE against father, and helped a great deal in the final battle against him. he also decimated central troops against mustang and held off wrath.

essentially he falls into the same category as scar. not so nice in the beginning but essential in the end. except his wasn't as radical a transformation as scar's was. he was largely apathetic to begin with, while scar actually was a villain who then turned protagonist.

PostPosted: August 4th, 2010, 12:30 am
by thejthar
When he kidnaps Al he doesn't want to learn about immortality, he WANTS immortality. And at that point he is willing to do anything to get it. Sure Ed wishes he took the deal but in the end he would be helping Greed get closer to immortality. In the end he might have those feelings of not wanting the world but that doesn't happen till the final battle against Father. That's when he truly turns good per say. But throughout the whole series he wants immortality, power, money, and just about everything. I'm sorry but you can't deny that.

Plus a villain doesn't exactly have to be an arch enemy of the hero or have to hinder or want to kill them. A villain is a person who has evil intentions such as wanting immortality, power, the world, and just about everything else. If that's not evil then I guess my morals are messed up. Plus, come on he is named after one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

I know anti-villain doesn't exist but when you think about it it makes sense.

Vegeta: what is he during the Sayian and Namek sagas? A villain and he never really turns good good. Sure he helps the heroes but he doesn't believe in their ideals and all he wants to do is beat Goku one day and be the strongest person ever. The only time he turns good good is when he sacrifices himself in the fight against Fat Buu. But, until then he always has evil intentions, he just can't do anything because Goku will always stop him cause he is always stronger than Vegeta.

Plus another example is Venom from Spiderman. If I remember correctly in some battles he helps Spiderman and Spiderman helps him fight Carnage. So is he an anti-hero, in a sense I guess, but he is a villain through out the whole series.

So in the end you can call Greed an anti-hero if you want to so badly but I will always see him as the BA villain Greed.

PostPosted: August 4th, 2010, 11:30 am
by PrimaryLotusUser
hmmmm...your reasoning:
1)his name
2)his greed.

also, vegeta is not a villain during the frieza saga.that is a fact. from the frieza saga to the end of the series, he is an anti-hero.

essentially you're saying that, because his heart is not completely pure and good, and he's not a knight in shining armor, then he must be a villain.
Also an anti-hero is someone who reluctantly helps the protagonists, but has motives of his own. to see what kind of character they truly are, you have to see a situation in which there are sides that are distinctly good or distinctly evil. the one he chooses is the kind of character he truly is.

greed: BA?yes.Villain? no.

PostPosted: August 4th, 2010, 12:41 pm
by Bassam
OK.... Enough about that its a person opinion no one should try to change it. Man!!! That was some long reading people, and one can be evil at first and change. No one has to be always good or always bad. Hearts change thats just the way life is. If someone sees that person is evil period even if they aren't so much later one then so be it! Leave it alone let people have opinions!

PostPosted: August 4th, 2010, 12:52 pm
by PrimaryLotusUser
sry bassam. i just it's like a Venn diagram of hero and villain, and greed is where they overlap.

PostPosted: August 4th, 2010, 1:02 pm
by thejthar
Your reasoning that he is an anti-hero is that he joins them to fight Father. Which is completely wrong. An anti-hero is more of a good guy who has the same good intentions and ideals of the main hero but whose morals are more corrupt; or a person who wants to be a hero but thinks of themselves incapable of it because of their corrupt morals or character defects. Is that Greed? No!

No matter how you look at it he is evil through the whole series because of his greed. I said "Plus, come on he is named after one of the Seven Deadly Sins." is because that is what Greed is. The purest evil form of greed. I can't say he is evil for any other reason because that is his character. The evil of greed. Sure he makes Ed join him in the final battle but is it because he has the same good intentions and ideals of stopping Father like Ed. Hell no! He wants Father's "God" powers to fill his greed and he even says that in the fight. He has Ed join him because he has no choice. He is not going to be able to take down Father himself. He knows Ed wants to fight Father so he takes advantage of that and has him join when in the end he is thinking for himself only. Plus, do you know any greedy people. They will do anything to fill their greed even if they have to get help from someone they don't like.

And Vegeta is ,for a fact, a villain in the Frieza Saga. Does he believe in stopping Frieza to protect the universe. Hell no!! He wants the Dragonballs so he can become immortal and the strongest being in the universe. He had no choice but to join Gohan and Krilian in the fight against the Ginyu Force because he can't win by himself. If they had won that fight he was going to flick Gohan and Krilian away and go get the Dragonballs. He had no good intentions at all until after that saga where he kind of starts to believe in their ideals but his morals are still corrupt thus he becomes an anti-hero from there on.

That is why I say they are more like anti-villains because they both start off evil but in the end turn out to be not as corrupt and end up being good. But are they good to begin with? Hell no!

So its more like: BA? Yes! Villains? Yes! Anti-heroes? Greed-No, Vegeta-after Frieza Saga! Anti-Villains? Greed-Yes, Vegeta Yes then turns into anti-hero.

PostPosted: August 4th, 2010, 1:05 pm
by thejthar
Sorry Bassam I didn't see your post when I started making my last post but I'm going to leave it up as my final testimony of why I personally believe Greed to be more of a villain than an anti-hero.